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Julian Hatch

Zhiyun Crane 3s Balance Issue

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Just wondering if anyone has any experience with an inability to achieve perfect balance on a 3 axis gimbal.. At the moment I am experiencing this with the newly released Zhiyun Crane 3s.

I am attempting to balance a variety of cameras on it from an A7R to an FX9 - The issue is coming with the inability to achieve perfect roll and tilt balance at the same time. 

For the roll axis to be perfect the tilt axis needs to be out by approx 2mm. (The camera needs to sit 2mm higher for perfect roll balance and 2mm lower for perfect tilt balance) - to clarify when referring to perfect balance the camera can be tilted to any angle and stay in this position, not roll back to its centre line)

I have researched elsewhere and found a few threads of people with this issue and even some replies from offical DJI accounts saying that there is some instances where the gimbal can be built out of perfect square by a few micros which wont allow perfect balance.

In the facebook group for the Crane 3s there is a lot of people reporting this issue also.. 

Does anyone have any experience with this? Did I just get unlucky with a bad gimbal or is there still an error on my behalf?

94143841_114192750258478_1068554478464008192_o.jpg

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I have asked Zhiyun if a representative can respond to your issue.

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That would be fantastic... so far I have only received the troubleshooting steps of - are you using both screws on the camera baseplate, is the camera balanced and have you tried adjusting the motor strength... (all valid questions but doesnt feel like they are addressing the issue or possibility that gimbal built out of square would not be possible to perfectly balance)

 

I appreciate that you cannot have a product engineer answering everyones issues but would be nice to see some clarity on this issue especially if such a large % of the current owners are experiencing it. 

(I have also sent them numerous video recordings of me displaying the exact issue at hand) - and in their defence I have still been able to get quite reasonable results even without perfect balance... (but not the results you would expect from a perfectly balanced one)

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4 hours ago, Julian Hatch said:

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with an inability to achieve perfect balance on a 3 axis gimbal.. At the moment I am experiencing this with the newly released Zhiyun Crane 3s.

I am attempting to balance a variety of cameras on it from an A7R to an FX9 - The issue is coming with the inability to achieve perfect roll and tilt balance at the same time. 

For the roll axis to be perfect the tilt axis needs to be out by approx 2mm. (The camera needs to sit 2mm higher for perfect roll balance and 2mm lower for perfect tilt balance) - to clarify when referring to perfect balance the camera can be tilted to any angle and stay in this position, not roll back to its centre line)

I have researched elsewhere and found a few threads of people with this issue and even some replies from offical DJI accounts saying that there is some instances where the gimbal can be built out of perfect square by a few micros which wont allow perfect balance.

In the facebook group for the Crane 3s there is a lot of people reporting this issue also.. 

Does anyone have any experience with this? Did I just get unlucky with a bad gimbal or is there still an error on my behalf?

94143841_114192750258478_1068554478464008192_o.jpg

Hello Julia, 

Thanks for your feedback. 

For Sony A7R series, which lens are you using? A7R series is too light for CRANE 3S and indeed the tilt axis may not be able to be balanced. But you can adjust the motor torque to low or medium low via the handle (select Manual>Torque>Low/medium low). CRANE 3S can handle Sony A7R series. 

For Sony FX9, I will send you a video to show you the balancing. Could you pls give me your email address/Whatsapp?

Hope it helps.

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my email address is [email protected] - I have already been in facebook messenger conversation with your support people so this would be a great help.

 

The lens I am using with A7R is Sony 24-70 2.8 GM.. - I am not questioning the motors on the gimbal as yes you are correct with the motor torque on low you can get good results. However I believe if I was able to perfectly balance the gimbal it would achieve much, much better results.

 

This balance problem is magnified with higher weight cameras.

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17 hours ago, Julian Hatch said:

 

Please see this video for example of the balance issue with FX9.

I understand what you mean. 

First does CRANE 3S have shaking issues in this "imperfectly balance" situation?

If it doesn't, let's go back to the balance issue.

In our opinion, when the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced.

From the design perspective, the roll axis is 55 degree angled (for unblocked view) and you added an extension module onto roll axis when mounting cameras like FX9. When you perfectly balance tilt axis or raise tilt axis 2mm, in these two situations, the tilt axis produces different forces when you move the roll axis so that's why roll axis can stay still in some situations while it cannot in other situations. 

Again, we think as long as the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced. Also, in the situation that the roll axis rolls back to center, if the speed of rolling from the left is almost the same with the speed of rolling from the right, that will mean "almost perfectly balance". 

Hope it answers your question. 

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2 minutes ago, ZHIYUN said:

I understand what you mean. 

First does CRANE 3S have shaking issues in this "imperfectly balance" situation?

If it doesn't, let's go back to the balance issue.

In our opinion, when the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced.

From the design perspective, the roll axis is 55 degree angled (for unblocked view) and you added an extension module onto roll axis when mounting cameras like FX9. When you perfectly balance tilt axis or raise tilt axis 2mm, in these two situations, the tilt axis produces different forces when you move the roll axis so that's why roll axis can stay still in some situations while it cannot in other situations. 

Again, we think as long as the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced. Also, in the situation that the roll axis rolls back to center, if the speed of rolling from the left is almost the same with the speed of rolling from the right, that will mean "almost perfectly balance". 

Hope it answers your question. 

Okay great thankyou for this response - 

 

The gimbal does have minor vibration in this configuration (on ultra motor settings it has major vibration, on low motor setting it has major vibration, on medium / medium high motor setting it has very minor vibration )

 

I am being able to achieve quite good results with the gimbal - however I feel like If was able to achieve true perfect balance these would be better.

 

Obviously on lighter camera packages to FX9 these issues are all not as bad.. but as the weight gets heavier these problems seem to be magnified..

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Hi All,

 

First time poster here, actually signed up just to get in on this conversation.

 

I'm an interiors photographer/videographer and recently bought a Crane 3S to fly a RED. I've been having the same issues described, and have settled for "good enough" balance most of the time. While not ideal it seems to work like this, although with the motors at or below medium I get a pretty significant wobble the further the camera gets from horizontal/vertical center while in use. With the motors above medium strength I get vibrations unless I grip the handle with kung-fu like strength. 

 

My RED build weighs ~10lbs depending on which lens I have mounted. Would appreciate some feedback, because I'm stumped.

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On 4/21/2020 at 8:31 PM, ZHIYUN said:

I understand what you mean. 

First does CRANE 3S have shaking issues in this "imperfectly balance" situation?

If it doesn't, let's go back to the balance issue.

In our opinion, when the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced.

From the design perspective, the roll axis is 55 degree angled (for unblocked view) and you added an extension module onto roll axis when mounting cameras like FX9. When you perfectly balance tilt axis or raise tilt axis 2mm, in these two situations, the tilt axis produces different forces when you move the roll axis so that's why roll axis can stay still in some situations while it cannot in other situations. 

Again, we think as long as the roll axis remains horizontal without external forces, the roll axis is balanced. Also, in the situation that the roll axis rolls back to center, if the speed of rolling from the left is almost the same with the speed of rolling from the right, that will mean "almost perfectly balance". 

Hope it answers your question. 

Hi ZHIYUN,

 

Please see my post above, as I am having the same issues as the original poster. I have shaking and/or wobbling with my RED camera on the gimbal depending on the motor strength setting. Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
On 4/21/2020 at 2:21 AM, Julian Hatch said:

 

Please see this video for example of the balance issue with FX9.

Thanks for bringing this up, brother. That’s pretty much what it behaves like with my similarly sized setup. 
 

How does the gimbal work with that easy rig on your original picture in this thread? I’m thinking about getting one. 

Edited by adrummingdude
..

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Yes unfortunately I think the gimbal is just built with these issues and a firmware update and or replacement unit will not solve it (I have however seen a couple examples of other people online who appear to have successfully balanced theirs..

 

The easyrig is good in terms of allowing you to not be drained by the weight so quickly so allows for better shots in that regard but the physical action of walking with an easyrig actually makes walking and the up and down motion of steps more exaggerated. This is why the flowcine serene arm was invented unfortunately its price makes it out of reach for some.. 

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Ive been running gimbals since the Movi M10, ive balanced all the major gimbals on the market and all the smaller ronin s style gimbals too.

While this problem you describe may be annoying, it doesn't actually matter. If the motors and IMU cannot compensate for this tiny tiny issue, then the product has larger failings. 

My preference would be to set the balance so that vertical tilt is perfect and get roll to where you had it. 

The gimbal should be fly fine. 

 

Interested to hear how the FX9 goes in general, ive got one and was thinking of ordering a 3s. Ive managed to balance it in my Ronin-S which was fun.

fx9ronin.jpeg

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Thanks for the reply Joe,

I feel like the gimbal itself is in a beta like state, things work but its a long way from smooth and easy operation.. 

As I said in a previous post I have been able to get quite reasonable results from it.. (and I have been going with what you suggest of get tilt axis perfect and roll as close as possible) 

There is still certain angles or movements which give pretty bad vibration and basically shot ruining but generally this is coming with testing it by moving to all sorts of angles which probably doesn't reflect real world use cases.. (but certainly not anything ive experienced on previous gimbals..)

Another thing which I think could help see better results is the addition of a ronin/movi style square frame for it which I believe smallrig are currently developing.. something tells me that having hands spread further apart will allow for more subtle and minute movement.

Also I dont know if its just me but attempting to fly a gimbal of this size with a FX9 without an easyrig is basically back breaking after about 20 minutes.. 

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I have the Crane 3S Pro and it had a lot of stability issues but after a firmware update and recalibration with a Nikkor 24-70mm lens on a Z7 mount, it is significantly more stable. Suggest people do a firmware update asap, you can do it via the mobile app.

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On 5/14/2020 at 9:04 AM, MRomero said:

Julian, do you have the extension on your gimbal with your a7? 

yes - I did.. I see they have released a new firmware in the last 2 days.. I'll report back if any improvement

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i have a problem with my crane 3s e.  when I turn it on it works for 5 seconds.  then the crane beeps 5 times and then releases it and I can no longer control it.  has anyone experienced this before?

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i have the same problem.   really disappointing...going to send back.  support, instructional vidzetc might've been good 

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On 5/29/2020 at 3:59 AM, Issi said:

i have a problem with my crane 3s e.  when I turn it on it works for 5 seconds.  then the crane beeps 5 times and then releases it and I can no longer control it.  has anyone experienced this before?

I'm sure this wasn't the case, but were any of the axis locked?

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3 hours ago, tommyjojo said:

i have the same problem.   really disappointing...going to send back.  support, instructional vidzetc might've been good 

I experienced vibration problems as well. 

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Hey everyone! First time posting. Im using the Canon c200 w/ Sigma 18-35 f1.8 on the Crane 3s. I'm coming from using the Ronin S (and the Ronin o.g., Crane v1, Crane 2, etc) and while I can manage to get all of 'em to work with the c200, right now I'd say the Ronin S has the best stability - but this is after owning 3 of them (and pulling out my hair a few times). All I can say is that it's not just Zhiyun who have a bit of trouble with releasing a product before it is completely ready. I can honestly say that I am only so chill in regards to what the Crane 3s is doing because I have seen this process play out a couple times. I also owned a Crane 2 before the Ronin S, it also initially needed a lot of improvement. All four models required a lot of patience and a willingness to practice, firmware updates will provide better performance but it won't replace what practice will do for you.  

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I didn't go through all the responses, so not sure if this was raised, but yesterday I came across this video and it notes that for anything over 3kg (notably in underslung mode), you need the additional power pack for it to balance properly.

Additionally, today I came across another issue raised by the same person: https://www.youtube.com/post/UgwAR6AQQqP9UjslgRx4AaABCQ. Make of it what you will.

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On 6/23/2020 at 6:47 AM, Australian Image (Ray) said:

I didn't go through all the responses, so not sure if this was raised, but yesterday I came across this video and it notes that for anything over 3kg (notably in underslung mode), you need the additional power pack for it to balance properly.

Additionally, today I came across another issue raised by the same person: https://www.youtube.com/post/UgwAR6AQQqP9UjslgRx4AaABCQ. Make of it what you will.

I ordered the PRO pack and i‘m on the latest 1.78 firmware. I tried an ursa mini and a bmpcc 4k with sigma 18-35 with the pro batterie pack. I managed to balance movi, ronin, crane 2 before. I have the best result with „medium“ but it is far from perfect an wobbling vibrations. I will sens my back :/ 

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