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Matthew Allard ACS

Canon EOS R5 & R6 Overheating Issues

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I have to say that I'm somewhat gobsmacked at the amount of defensive manoeuvres being fielded towards the Canon R5 and R6 overheating issue. I just don't see it as a minor issue that will only affect a few. And those claiming these are just stills cameras I think are somewhat deluding themselves. Canon is advertising these as both stills and video cameras. Canon wants these to be considered as such.

The thing that has struck me more than anything else is a simple, though indirect, comparison with the BMPCC4K and 6K. Even to this day, I hear and read about people complaining about the battery life of these two cameras, with the most recent example stating that it's 'horrendous'. I haven't noticed anyone coming to their defence (other than myself), yet through my own tests using a genuine Canon LP-E6N battery shows that I can get 52 min of continuous 4KDCI recording, at any outside/inside temperature (I've done so outside when when it's been 43.7C in the shade and the camera did not falter). The battery life is not 'horrendous', given that the battery is only 14Wh. It may not be sufficiently powerful for some shooters, but it's not horrendous.

So, how is this relevant? Well, if say 50 min of recording time is not sufficient for the BMPCC4K, then how is 20 min (or less) recording time for the R5/R6 suddenly sufficient (forgetting the additional cooling times)? Then there's the other take. I can easily attach an external battery (NP-F, V-lock, power bank etc) and get unlimited shooting time by simply swapping batteries as needed and letting the internal battery act as an UPS. You can't effectively remove heat build up from the R5/R6 to improve the operational time.

So if Canon had advertised the camera as mainly a stills camera with crappy video qualities, then I don't think anyone would have made such a fuss, but they didn't. They made video capabilities a major feature. So the arguments as to why overheating with the R5/R6 is not a problem is truly gobsmacking.

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The other thing I forgot to mention is that one of the other 'complaints' about the BMPCC4K/6K have been that they require accessories such as cages and external monitors. It looks like external monitors (and likely cages) will become the 'in thing' now that the R5/R6 are here, as it appears the only way to record longer sessions is by using an external monitor recorder. Karma is a bitch. 😄

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3 hours ago, FranciscoB said:

 Are people forgetting about this?

https://tilta.com/shop/sony-a6-series-tilta-rig-es-t27-2/

Tilta had a cage for the a6 series with a fan already. Not trying to defend canon. That thing is a mess but it's not the first to get a cooling solution from tilta 😄

 

Sony managed to address their over heating problems with a FW up date ,and I guess some legal arse covering where it says opting for the 'High" temperature freehold option in the menu could damage your camera.. but basically they had set the cut off limit way too low and no one has had a problem with the high settings ..  and thew A camera,s just dont over heat anymore .. not sure if Canon have that leeway with the 8K sensor .. 

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If there's a possibility for a firmware update for the Canon, I'm sure Cannon is working every person to the bone, day and night, to find a solution. But I guess I'm experiencing a bit of schadenfreude with all of this.

For nearly two years now I've listened to people constantly bagging the BMPCC4K (and 6K) for any reason they can find seemingly in order to deter people from getting one. It's the 'horrendous' battery life, no flippy screen, no EVF, no IBIS, no ability to take proper photos, bad design, needs accessories before it can be used and whatever else. None of which is an issue whatsoever.

So now it's been revealed that the 'King' has no clothes and his minions are desperately out in force declaring that he is in fact magnificently attired. Excuse me if I enjoy popcorn for a change. 😄

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

If there's a possibility for a firmware update for the Canon, I'm sure Cannon is working every person to the bone, day and night, to find a solution. But I guess I'm experiencing a bit of schadenfreude with all of this.

For nearly two years now I've listened to people constantly bagging the BMPCC4K (and 6K) for any reason they can find seemingly in order to deter people from getting one. It's the 'horrendous' battery life, no flippy screen, no EVF, no IBIS, no ability to take proper photos, bad design, needs accessories before it can be used and whatever else. None of which is an issue whatsoever.

So now it's been revealed that the 'King' has no clothes and his minions are desperately out in force declaring that he is in fact magnificently attired. Excuse me if I enjoy popcorn for a change. 😄

yeah have to say a part of me is glad that 8k is a total mess..  I think the whole K thing is marketing bollocks ..  6k down sample to 4K seems to be the Goldilocks level.. for 99% of any productions.. at the most..

Sure make a specialist 8k camera  for effects .. like there is for high speed ..  , but in a mirrorless stills camera video mode  ..????   14 mins record time and 20 mins to cool down .. yes good thinking Canon management  ,Im sure that was worth 1,000 meetings .. and the A7s111 coming out .. I'd be selling my canon shares .. presumably the engineers were against it but over ridden by their fearless leaders in suits .. 

Edited by Robin Probyn
spelling

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On 7/28/2020 at 4:39 AM, Australian Image (Ray) said:

So now it's been revealed that the 'King' has no clothes and his minions are desperately out in force declaring that he is in fact magnificently attired. Excuse me if I enjoy popcorn for a change. 😄

It's a stills camera. From the beginning they said the 8K and other video codecs are compromised, which should be apparent considering no other manufacturer is putting out 8K raw in a form factor anywhere near the R5. Figuring out the right gear is part of everyone's job. Would you be happier if Canon had not mentioned the 8K raw? I'm going to buy one if only for the stills capability, even though I'm mostly shooting video these days. There is plenty of information available to make a professional's decision about whether to buy it without the suggestion that Canon is trying to defraud the film making community. 

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Canon heavily touted its 8K video capabilities, with the clear intent of implying that it was above all other hybrid cameras. No one is saying that Canon is or was trying to defraud anyone, the camera can clearly take 8K video, even if it's for a few seconds. That few seconds seems to be borne out given some statements that the overheating begins with stills shooting and thus affects the video ability. Time will tell how the camera fares in the real world.

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Ray, what I don't understand it my BMPCC6K will shoot a 4 hour concert with no need to shut down for heat buildup. I've shot many professional artists in concert without any interruption in 6K raw...  This R5 is only going to give me 20 minutes if I'm lucky at 8K.  Also, maybe someone can help me understand why Canon is limiting each clip to no more than 29.59 seconds?  I thought that limitation for the EU was no longer the law.  I'd appreciate any comments to these two issues.

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There has been quite a bit of discussion about the overheating issue and it appears that part of it has been artificially imposed by Canon, using a timer that stop recording. Some have found a hack to this that provides some respite: https://petapixel.com/2020/08/24/simple-hack-proves-canon-eos-r5-overheating-limit-is-artificial/.

The latest Canon firmware update has also changed thing slightly I believe: https://petapixel.com/2020/08/27/canon-unveils-eos-r5-firmware-1-1-improves-overheating-times/. I haven't read into this that much, as I'm not interested in the R5 other than from an academic point of view.

Why the recording limit? Perhaps because Canon doesn't want the R5 to compete with their cinema cameras. For a long time, from what I've read, canon likes to cripple their cameras in one way or the other so as not to eat into their higher end offerings. This has also led to many creating hacks to open up features that have been crippled.

That's why I like Blackmagic, there is no artificial crippling of their products.

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Ray, I owned several Canon cameras starting in 2004. I got the 5DMK2 and then the 5DMK3.  After figuring out the Magic Lantern firmware, the 5DMK3 became a great camera for 1920 x 1080p.  I gained unlimited recording and also improved resolution from 8 bit to 12 & 14 bit.  I still use it but for hoping to improve 4K, 6K or 8K, I had high hopes for this R5.  Perhaps someone will come up with a work around that will at least allow recordings that will be regulated by the size of the media card and not some artificial timer.  For those of us that shoot live performances, long recording times are necessary.

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I've shot a few events, summer ones where it gets very hot, and while my BMPCC4K hasn't been on continuously, it's run for around 5-6 hours of total recording time using 4KDCI. I don't think the R5 would have been very good, especially with the heat.

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1 hour ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the overheating issue and it appears that part of it has been artificially imposed by Canon, using a timer that stop recording. Some have found a hack to this that provides some respite: https://petapixel.com/2020/08/24/simple-hack-proves-canon-eos-r5-overheating-limit-is-artificial/.

The latest Canon firmware update has also changed thing slightly I believe: https://petapixel.com/2020/08/27/canon-unveils-eos-r5-firmware-1-1-improves-overheating-times/. I haven't read into this that much, as I'm not interested in the R5 other than from an academic point of view.

Why the recording limit? Perhaps because Canon doesn't want the R5 to compete with their cinema cameras. For a long time, from what I've read, canon likes to cripple their cameras in one way or the other so as not to eat into their higher end offerings. This has also led to many creating hacks to open up features that have been crippled.

That's why I like Blackmagic, there is no artificial crippling of their products.

For years and years cameras have been artificially crippled because there are many models in a lineup. Companies develop a processor and a sensor that they can use across multiple models at different price points. They then need to differentiate those models by making them different. Whether that be not including higher resolutions, higher frame rates or better codec options or imposing recording limitations. People forget that these companies are businesses that are designed to make money. Whether or not a camera is restricted technically or artificially is irrelevant. Any company has a prerogative to include, not include or restrict features they put into a product. If people don’t like it they don’t have to buy that product. 

If that product happens to be so bad then no one will actually but it. 
 

There are so many options out there. Why would anybody in their right mind buy a camera full knowing it has issues and won’t do what they want it to do.

2 hours ago, Joe Ray said:

Ray, what I don't understand it my BMPCC6K will shoot a 4 hour concert with no need to shut down for heat buildup. I've shot many professional artists in concert without any interruption in 6K raw...  This R5 is only going to give me 20 minutes if I'm lucky at 8K.  Also, maybe someone can help me understand why Canon is limiting each clip to no more than 29.59 seconds?  I thought that limitation for the EU was no longer the law.  I'd appreciate any comments to these two issues.

Recording limitations are usually there to differentiate between various models in a line up. If multiple cameras use the same sensor and processing engine then a company needs to restrict features or capabilities. Sometimes this comes in the form of recording time restrictions. Whether people hate it or not  that’s just the way it is. The other reason can be because of technical limitations where a company feels that that is the limit a particular camera can record to keep it reliable and to make sure it still works years down the track. 
 

Almost every camera is artificially crippled in some shape or form. The more cameras in a line up, the more restrictions and admissions you will see.

With Blackmagic they only have a couple of cameras so they don’t need protect a vast array of models by artificially inhibiting what their cameras can do. 

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