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Anyone have experience with the different sizes of the Cinesaddle? I've looked a the visual references online but I'm wondering if you could get away with using the Minisaddle size with a C500 II / C300 III instead of going all the way to the largest size. 

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I came across those things some time last year and thought that's a lot of weight to lug around (and somewhat expensive) and I remember seeing this video that suggests some alternatives that also came to my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Tcnl3xnPk. I'm sure a gazillion other Heath Robinson's would do much the same, such as a neoprene bag.

 

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9 minutes ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

I came across those things some time last year and thought that's a lot of weight to lug around (and somewhat expensive) and I remember seeing this video that suggests some alternatives that also came to my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Tcnl3xnPk. I'm sure a gazillion other Heath Robinson's would do much the same, such as a neoprene bag.

 

Thanks for the response Ray. From what I understand the cinesaddles are pretty lightweight, with the largest weighing in at just over 2.5 lbs. I'm mostly wondering if the surface area of the middle sized one would be enough to cradle a Canon cine camera, C200, C300 III size. 

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Anyone on the forums that owns a cinesaddle who can comment? I know that cinesaddle says that "Our sizing is just a recommendation. Every Cinesaddle will work with any camera."

Looking for personal experience in how you use it. 

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I've had mine (original model) for nearly 15 years now, and I barely use it these days.

Main reason is that they excelled with longer, larger cameras that had uniform sizes that you didn't really add any custom, cage-style accessories to, like full-size broadcast HD cameras or film cameras. The way it's designed it sort of wraps around and cradles the camera at various angles and the longer and more minimal body styles "sat" in them quite nicely.  

They're not great with smaller modern cameras or modern camera rigs, which tend to be custom sizes that vary considerably. They just don't wrap around them and hold steady nearly as well, to the point that I've found you might as well just use a sandbag. I know they make smaller models for smaller cameras, which I haven't tried, but it doesn't make much sense to me to carry more than one of these when I barely use that one in the first place. 

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This has piqued my interest somewhat, as I'm always keen to understand new things. How did you want to use the Cinesaddle? I've had a look at images of the Cinesaddle in use and from every one there are what to me seem far better options. Here are a few examples:

I would consider suction mounts far more practical, safer and able to hold the camera more solidly than a bag. I've mounted a camera on the bullbar of my 4WD using a solid clamp and mount and had no issues with stability.

maxresdefault.jpg

For things like this I use the detachable tripod foot off my monopod (which has the ability for some titling and rotation) to provide a very solid, low-level, support.

cda45b68796b4974fa19db294b40a352.jpg

This could surely be achieved with a strap setup and even better with an inexpensive Easyrig clone such as I have, than adding another weight to the front of the body, likely causing added back strain (and how do you move the camera about?).

ae59db5e448cac9378d766b8b809e92b.jpg

If the Cinesaddle has been around for at least 15 years, I think there are nowadays far better solutions. Perhaps this is still a good use for the Cinesaddle:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWl9Mvckv5vg1hCUvHdmZ

 

 

 

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Thanks Erik, that's helpful. I had been doing some research and seen other shooters who liked their cinesaddles as support for operating smaller style cameras (minimally-rigged RED's, Alexa Mini, Canon Cinema cameras) by slinging it over a shoulder and using it for elbow support, etc. when operating in front of the body.

Basically an alternative to shoulder mounting but still giving you a ton of flexibility to move around. I have a solid shoulder mount setup but I've lately been looking to slim things down and was considering something to this effect. 

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3 minutes ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

This could surely be achieved with a strap setup and even better with an inexpensive Easyrig clone such as I have, than adding another weight to the front of the body, likely causing added back strain (and how do you move the camera about?).

ae59db5e448cac9378d766b8b809e92b.jpg

Ray, this is probably the best representation of how I was thinking of using it. As support when slung over a shoulder. 

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OK. I've seen other types of shoulder mounted camera supports being used in the field. Some are like a vest with a short monopod held in place in a pocket at the front, others a simple brace that goes over the shoulder and then presses into the chest. There's a brand called Steadygum that I think might have been reviewed on the site and looks simple enough, but it's not cheap (for a strap and monopod). I think they took this old idea and modernised it (a flag holder):

Ceremonial_Strap_And_Bucket.jpg

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1 hour ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

OK. I've seen other types of shoulder mounted camera supports being used in the field. Some are like a vest with a short monopod held in place in a pocket at the front, others a simple brace that goes over the shoulder and then presses into the chest. There's a brand called Steadygum that I think might have been reviewed on the site and looks simple enough, but it's not cheap (for a strap and monopod). I think they took this old idea and modernised it (a flag holder):

Ceremonial_Strap_And_Bucket.jpg

I bought a SteadyGum last year.  The price was a little painful considering the basic idea has been around and other versions in use for decades, but I like it and it works well.  Everyone I've let try it, likes it.  I let one of my buddies use it on a three day handheld live shoot and he said it was worth every penny, even if he had been the one that had to pay for it ;  ) .  Even the old news dogs that have 10-20 years on this old dog said they'd consider buying one.

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19 minutes ago, Run&Gun said:

I bought a SteadyGum last year.  The price was a little painful considering the basic idea has been around and other versions in use for decades, but I like it and it works well.  Everyone I've let try it, likes it.  I let one of my buddies use it on a three day handheld live shoot and he said it was worth every penny, even if he had been the one that had to pay for it ;  ) .  Even the old news dogs that have 10-20 years on this old dog said they'd consider buying one.

I thought of making something like this even before I knew of the Steadygum. I even went so far as to buy a cheap sleeve/holster (it's correct name I believe is a 'frog') that is designed to hold a flag/banner, that you can attach to a belt around your waist without the shoulder strap. My plan was to use a monopod resting in the holster.

The genuine ones might work very well indeed: http://www.adwareflags.com/index.php/windsock-frames?id=32.

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I have a Steady Saddle made by Bebop. Basically the same thing. The fabric used on the Cinesaddle is a bit softer, and so nicer against the skin (when using it as a brace). The Bebop Steady Saddle is however very durable, and quite water repellant and wipes clean very easily, but it can be a bit abrasive against the skin. In my experience both function exactly the same in terms of support.

This is their new version, which I must say looks a bit better than mine. Improved shape: 

I on occasion use mine over the shoulder as a brace as per that photo above. It does work really well, both for hip level shooting, but also can be used to rest the elbows on to take for arm strain with heavier cameras.

The only downside to this is the strap can dig into your shoulder, causing a new sort of soreness. I tried to counteract this by adding a velcro-on soft shoulder pad to my strap. It helps, but still can become a little sore if resting a heavy camera on it for extended periods. Different soreness to just having the camera on the shoulder... as it can yank on your neck a bit.

I have an Ergorig now, and haven't tried doing the two together... haven't really needed to yet... but if I find myself on another factual documentary job where I need to have a heavy camera on my shoulder for hours on end, I'll definitely bring both tools (unless renting an Easyrig is more suited to the particular job).

I've never tried using mine on a car bonnet... but have used it many times to stabilise cameras on the floor, on edges of walls/ledges/railings, and also on car seats.

I've also used it as a pillow when travelling! Though it probably wasn't very clean, haha.

Here are a few pics of me using both my Steady Saddle (blue) and a Cinesaddle (brown).

Screenshot 2020-06-18 at 11.12.58.jpg

Screenshot 2020-06-18 at 11.08.23.jpg

Screenshot 2020-06-18 at 11.09.38.jpg

Screenshot 2020-06-18 at 11.08.38.jpg

Screenshot 2020-06-18 at 11.09.24.jpg

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10 hours ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

I thought of making something like this even before I knew of the Steadygum. I even went so far as to buy a cheap sleeve/holster (it's correct name I believe is a 'frog') that is designed to hold a flag/banner, that you can attach to a belt around your waist without the shoulder strap. My plan was to use a monopod resting in the holster.

The genuine ones might work very well indeed: http://www.adwareflags.com/index.php/windsock-frames?id=32.

I had thought of making my own, maybe two years ago or so, but after using the SG, you realize a few things:

1) The elastic of the bandolero style shoulder strap provides shock-absorption while walking with the camera and quick/slight height adjustment(for tilting) that wouldn’t be there with a solid strap or putting the ‘frog’ on a belt(as I had contemplated).

2) The top stage/VCT receiver plate on the “monopod” tilts/pivots up & down, which is necessary for proper/comfortable use and quick adjustments.  I have not seen any other similar VCT receivers(like for regular monopod use) that pivot.

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On 6/17/2020 at 1:49 PM, Dustin Schmidt said:

Anyone on the forums that owns a cinesaddle who can comment? I know that cinesaddle says that "Our sizing is just a recommendation. Every Cinesaddle will work with any camera."

Looking for personal experience in how you use it. 

I have the biggest size and it works beautifully with a full size package. It is almost weightless. The actual work is done by the filling. It absorbs vibration. The straps for an ad-hoc car mount are stored in the CineSaddle's pockets. This is more than an expensive pillow. The filling is like a bean bag refill, the outer material is indestructible and it has pouches for accessories. If you have the camera built so it doesn't sit evenly for low shots just place it on the CineSaddle. That's the lightest low hat ever. Maybe for a tiny camera the smaller versions work but I feel that choosing a bigger CineSadle will pack more filling under the camera, which will isolate it more successfully from any kind of vibration. 

Say in a car, you can rest a camera built for shoulder mount on a CineSaddle that you hold on your lap and just hold it lightly to get rid of any jiggling action. You will still catch all the pot holes but the little vibration gets isolated really well. The less you have to stabilize in post, the better the image quality, right?

While I would love to see funds go to the original inventor (if it's a budget question) get yourself a Bean Bag refill on amazon or eBay and fill it in an old duffle bag. Play with that for a while before you commit to the CineSaddle. I am still a fan.

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12 minutes ago, Hannes Famira said:

It is almost weightless. The actual work is done by the filling. It absorbs vibration.

This is the part that eludes me. Yes, the bag itself is very light weight, but where do you store or get the filling? It's the filling that weighs and how do you know that you can get anything at all, even rocks, to fill the bag when out and about?

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10 hours ago, Australian Image (Ray) said:

This is the part that eludes me. Yes, the bag itself is very light weight, but where do you store or get the filling? It's the filling that weighs and how do you know that you can get anything at all, even rocks, to fill the bag when out and about?

Err?

You don’t refill it on the move. It’s filled once, in the factory, and that’s it.

And why would you put rocks in it? They’re stuffed with lightweight polystyrene pellets.

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1 minute ago, Nezih said:

Err?

You don’t refill it on the move. It’s filled once, in the factory, and that’s it.

And why would you put rocks in it? They’re stuffed with lightweight polystyrene pellets.

I wouldn't have thought that styrofoam would be substantive enough to provide proper support? I just Googled camera bean bags and they seem to be everywhere and, interestingly, many don't use styrofoam for environmental reasons (I just hate styrofoam in packaging as it's a right royal pain to dispose of neatly).

That Cinesaddle reminds me of swags. Some love swags because they are akin to an all-in-one tent (albeit more like a body bag) with a foam mattress, sleeping bag and cover in one unit. Swags are 'relatively' lightweight, but they take up so much room that you need a roof rack to carry one, and you can never stand up or sit in one.

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You can buy “bean refills” from Cinekinetics/Cinesaddle and they appear to be perfectly round, miniature styrofoam type balls.  But it seems like I remember others using buckwheat hulls(there are pillows made with them).

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18 hours ago, Hannes Famira said:

I have the biggest size and it works beautifully with a full size package. It is almost weightless. The actual work is done by the filling. It absorbs vibration. The straps for an ad-hoc car mount are stored in the CineSaddle's pockets. This is more than an expensive pillow. The filling is like a bean bag refill, the outer material is indestructible and it has pouches for accessories. If you have the camera built so it doesn't sit evenly for low shots just place it on the CineSaddle. That's the lightest low hat ever. Maybe for a tiny camera the smaller versions work but I feel that choosing a bigger CineSadle will pack more filling under the camera, which will isolate it more successfully from any kind of vibration. 

Say in a car, you can rest a camera built for shoulder mount on a CineSaddle that you hold on your lap and just hold it lightly to get rid of any jiggling action. You will still catch all the pot holes but the little vibration gets isolated really well. The less you have to stabilize in post, the better the image quality, right?

While I would love to see funds go to the original inventor (if it's a budget question) get yourself a Bean Bag refill on amazon or eBay and fill it in an old duffle bag. Play with that for a while before you commit to the CineSaddle. I am still a fan.

Thanks for the great info! I think I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on one. It seems great for run and gun corporate or doc stuff, for the times when not operating from the shoulder and needing a little more support at chest/waist level. I love the different use cases you described. I'm a Canon shooter (C200, C300MKIII) and I'd love for something that works well for support and stability when operating those cameras stripped down to a smaller handheld package.

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