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Matthew Allard ACS

MAVO Edge- 8K & ProRes RAW internal recording

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Just watched the first look video on ProAV's YouTube channel and I have to say, I'm intrigued. It looks to be a real engineering feat and if Kinefinity can deliver on these promises, they will put a huge amount of pressure on competitors like RED.

And this is exactly what excites me about the Mavo Edge. Personally, I don't see myself using a Kinefinity camera in the forseeable future, but the way they just outperform most of the competition makes me want to see what else will come up in the next few years.

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I thought Sony might have a patent on the electrical Variable ND..   I guess not or they have allowed another manufacturer to use it.. or a court case is on the way .. ! ..

 

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4 hours ago, Robin Probyn said:

I thought Sony might have a patent on the electrical Variable ND..   I guess not or they have allowed another manufacturer to use it.. or a court case is on the way .. ! ..

 

The technology has been around for a long time but implementing it into a camera body has been tricky. It will be in all cameras eventually as it's such a needed feature. I believe Sony had to add color correction electronically as you increase the ND strength due to color shift. 

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I'm not a "camera guy" but to me this looks like it has everything but the kitchen sink. It also sounds like Kinefinity are getting their distribution and service network sorted so combined with any trade-up offer to take care of their early adopters (and as long as they stay out of legal troubles) it looks like a big win for them and for filmmakers in general.

Now they just have to build them in production quantities!

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The camera looks great but hate to say without any US support its a hard buy for myself. I love my RED and thinking about getting a second one here soon, but cameras like this hit all the boxes excpect what I would say is the most important one in support. 

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10 hours ago, Erik Naso said:

The technology has been around for a long time but implementing it into a camera body has been tricky. It will be in all cameras eventually as it's such a needed feature. I believe Sony had to add color correction electronically as you increase the ND strength due to color shift. 

ah ok got it .. I presumed they had some sort of patent as I hadn't seen it in any other camera .. yeah I presume the color shift is why they didn't put it into the Venice ..  but agree ..I think at some point in the near future .. this and AF will make there way into the top end feature camera,s..  it will just save alot of time for some shots .. I read that Panavision is looking into a var ND system.. 

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Really exciting to see a camera like this especially with the dual mag system and the super simple low profile UPS system. I would LOVE to see Blackmagic Design go this design route with their next high end camera.

When BMD originally announced BRAW they said they were open to supporting BRAW in other cameras...but since then havn't heard much other than launching it in their video assist monitors. Might be a dumb questions but does anyone know what kind of relationship BMD and Kinefinity have, would there ever be the possibility of seeing BRAW in Kinefinity cameras? Maybe thats out of the question since they already have ProRes Raw.

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1 hour ago, Caleb Hauff said:

would there ever be the possibility of seeing BRAW in Kinefinity cameras?

I think of BMD and Kinefinity as dueling rivals in the "little brother" tier of camera manufacturers. If Kinefinity were to support BRAW it would mean ceding ground in this battle. If BRAW becomes a major standard that everyone wants then BMD can then hike up the price to license it and effectively crush the other lower tier companies like Kinefinity and Z-cam. By not supporting it (and praying that it doesn't become the dominant codec) camera companies (including those on the "big brother" tier) can minimize the value of this codec. Apple, on the other hand, does not make a camera and is thus seen as more trustworthy by everyone. If we're wishing for things I'd much rather hope for a ProRes Raw v2.0 that approaches BRAW's compression ratios and has a better chance of wide adoption.

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2 hours ago, Robin Probyn said:

ah ok got it .. I presumed they had some sort of patent as I hadn't seen it in any other camera .. yeah I presume the color shift is why they didn't put it into the Venice ..  but agree ..I think at some point in the near future .. this and AF will make there way into the top end feature camera,s..  it will just save alot of time for some shots .. I read that Panavision is looking into a var ND system.. 

Panavision already has an electronic variable ND. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/06/02/panavision-lcnd-first-look/

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1 hour ago, Raafi RIvero said:

I think of BMD and Kinefinity as dueling rivals in the "little brother" tier of camera manufacturers. If Kinefinity were to support BRAW it would mean ceding ground in this battle. If BRAW becomes a major standard that everyone wants then BMD can then hike up the price to license it and effectively crush the other lower tier companies like Kinefinity and Z-cam. By not supporting it (and praying that it doesn't become the dominant codec) camera companies (including those on the "big brother" tier) can minimize the value of this codec. Apple, on the other hand, does not make a camera and is thus seen as more trustworthy by everyone. If we're wishing for things I'd much rather hope for a ProRes Raw v2.0 that approaches BRAW's compression ratios and has a better chance of wide adoption.

That makes a lot of sense, competition is always a good thing. I'd certainly be open to a ProRes Raw v2.0 that had higher compression ratios similar to BRAW or R3D. Also having ProRes Raw fully supported in Davinci Resolve would be real nice.

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3 hours ago, Caleb Hauff said:

That makes a lot of sense, competition is always a good thing. I'd certainly be open to a ProRes Raw v2.0 that had higher compression ratios similar to BRAW or R3D. Also having ProRes Raw fully supported in Davinci Resolve would be real nice.

The problem with Prores RAW is that without support from BMD within Resolve its really just dead in the water in my opinion. 

Mavo Edge looks amazing. Must be an identical ND filter system to the FX9 as the specs match exactly, which is good.. and bad! As an FX9 owner I can tell you straight away that 7 stops is not enough if you want to shoot close to T2 or 2.8 at 800 ISO in full sun.. oh well. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Matthew Allard ACS said:

Panavision already has an electronic variable ND. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/06/02/panavision-lcnd-first-look/

Oh right ...  looks like this one goes from zero ND.. where as the Sony starts at 2ND..   Seems  the same system  .. how is Panavision getting rid of any color shift I wonder .. as Sony seem to do it electronically in camera .. ? 

Edited by Robin Probyn

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2 hours ago, Robin Probyn said:

Oh right ...  looks like this one goes from zero ND.. where as the Sony starts at 2ND..   Seems  the same system  .. how is Panavision getting rid of any color shift I wonder .. as Sony seem to do it electronically in camera .. ? 

Good question!

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8 hours ago, Joe Lawry said:

The problem with Prores RAW is that without support from BMD within Resolve its really just dead in the water in my opinion. 

I think BMD will have to support it if they don't want to loose customers who would opt for using FCPX and Premiere with their ProResRAW footage...Atomos and Panasonic are pushing it quite hard.

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Has anyone heard if a Nikon F mount (for my beloved Zeiss primes) or Canon RF mount may be in the works for this powerful looking little wonder?

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6 minutes ago, TommyD DoP said:

Has anyone heard if a Nikon F mount (for my beloved Zeiss primes) or Canon RF mount may be in the works for this powerful looking little wonder?

Canon RF is being discussed on the FB group...Nikon F is easy, just buy a quality EF to F adapter for your lenses from Kindai/Rayqual or Novoflex or eventually Leitax if you want a more permanent solution.

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Thanks for this reply. Of all the lens adapting challenges I have faced over the years, EF to F has been the worst; thin and weak and jam-prone has been the unfortunate common denominator. I have yet to find something truly rugged and solid, but will check out the Leitax angle.

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1 hour ago, TommyD DoP said:

Thanks for this reply. Of all the lens adapting challenges I have faced over the years, EF to F has been the worst; thin and weak and jam-prone has been the unfortunate common denominator. I have yet to find something truly rugged and solid, but will check out the Leitax angle.

If you havent tried Leitax then youv'e been missing out. Nothing else comes close. 

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9 minutes ago, Matthew Allard ACS said:

It’s Panavision 🙂 it’s designed for high end rental cameras. 

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question about colour shift. if there is any, I can imagine that would piss colourists off!

I wonder how commonly used it is in the field?

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A lot of these systems have no noticeable color shift. Even the Kinefinity  e-ND adapter that’s I used in the MAVO LF was very good. I couldn’t see any noticeable color shift even at its maximum setting. The system in the FS5 was pretty bad with color shift. 

Isn’t the system in the FX9 4 to 128 Stops?  I imagine the more ND you have the harder it gets to maintain color accuracy. 

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11 minutes ago, Nezih said:

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question about colour shift. if there is any, I can imagine that would piss colourists off!

I wonder how commonly used it is in the field?

No idea. I haven’t seen or heard of anyone using it. 

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On 4/28/2020 at 9:50 AM, Joe Lawry said:

The problem with Prores RAW is that without support from BMD within Resolve its really just dead in the water in my opinion. 

Mavo Edge looks amazing. Must be an identical ND filter system to the FX9 as the specs match exactly, which is good.. and bad! As an FX9 owner I can tell you straight away that 7 stops is not enough if you want to shoot close to T2 or 2.8 at 800 ISO in full sun.. oh well. 

Was wondering about this, and also afraid that this was the issue. But I guess it means you would still need an nd filter for 10% of the shoots. 

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