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WillyLyons

Sony PMW-F3

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Woohoo! First post! This is for everyone out there still using or curious about the venerable Sony F3. She’s old, but she’s great value, and in my opinion, offers a lot of versatility and a great image. They can be had for well under $1k on eBay and if you are tired of “keeping up with the Jonses” so to speak chasing specs, I believe this camera can offer a great budget option. Especially in a “doc” setting.

If you are working on commercial projects or have clientele with requirements maybe it won’t meet but let’s face it, a lot of folks on here and in the world of “new media” likely produce content for various social media networks or platforms ultimately viewable on phones.  If you’re in the market for a new Mirrorless or DSLR or even a C100 style camera, you’d be remiss to not give it a little research. Which brings me to this post.

I work professionally on unscripted reality TV shows (The Last Alaskans, Life Below Zero, etc)  as a Field Producer and a camera op. C300 has been the main choice since it’s inception. Everything is still HD. Some shows are starting to shoot log, most aren’t. I was looking for a camera to start a YouTube show about my wife and I on our small farm since both of us had been “laid off” (well she was, I’m basically always laid off until the phone rings but I have had a lot of work postponed). So I started looking back at the F3. I knew I wanted a S35 size sensor, and I wanted cheap. I still have an EX1 so I already had a few sxs cards and a card reader which helped me move in this direction. I also wanted a PL mount and the opportunity to rent/use specialty cine lenses.

A quick search on eBay shows a lot of these available in the $600-$900 range. I bought one.

My current setup is an F3 with the RGB upgrade which was purchased on eBay for $730, about $800 all said and done. It came with two 64gb SxS cards, a few batteries, and some rig accessories.
 

I purchased a used Fujinon MK 18-55 from Lensauthority for $2300 for it, and a $500 E-FZ Mount adapter from Duclos. Splurge, I know. That was before the virus really took hold. This lens is fantastic, has a good useable range, and has an 82mm filter thread which accommodates filters I already own. I run a 3 stop ND on the F3 most of the time because it’s built in ND’s aren’t quite strong enough in daylight situations.

So for $3600 I have a camera which is excellent in low light, sips battery juice, offers long recording times, and has a beautiful lens which is a joy to use. For me, to option to use cine-glass over still lenses was important. I have been very pleased with the image quality. It isn’t ultra clean and certainly not 4K but it has a certain aesthetic that to me, adds a level of grittiness or authenticity to the image. Examples of the footage can be seen here (mixed with EX1 and iPhone!) 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMLhZ0dGOPaG0XtTcr_xjeA

Downsides: the viewfinder is crap and the LCD isn’t up to snuff with more modern options. If you are recording SLog internally to SxS cards, there’s no LUT or view assist so sometimes focus can be a little challenging but I just up the contrast all the way and add saturation and it’s worked pretty well. It’s also not a very bright LCD. I also with it had more ND options, but that’s pretty easy to get around. I record SLog internally and find it color corrects nicely in FCPX with Color Finale. I’m am a terrible colorist and honestly kind of hate doing it so don’t judge the camera by the grade!

Information about this camera is scattered across a spectrum of forums due to its age, so I wanted to take a stab at making a new resource for it for any current or prospective users.  Does anyone else have any setups, thoughts, or questions? I’m happy to answer any questions also! Cheers!

 

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Lovely camera still! I remember fondly the days when I had an EX1R but really desired to have an F3!

I'd take an F3 now myself as a B-cam... but the main thing that puts me off is the menus don't match the F5/55 system, and they don't have slog2/3 so a bit harder to match up.

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Yes, the menus are old XDCAM style which is a pain. Also, would be great if they had Slog 2/3. It would be awesome if a company like Sony, especially given the current economic situation, would revisit past cameras and maybe spruce up the firmware a touch! I guess that’s the difference between a camera company like Arri and a tech company like Sony/Canon/Panasonic. Do you shoot on an F5 or F55 now? This is another camera which it seems hard to find a reason to need to upgrade from, unless someone specifically demands something more.

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Yeah, that would be cool if they did that! But it's just not in their interest. Their goal is to innovate and sell.

Yeah I use an F5. 7 years in, and no immediate need to upgrade yet! Incredible.

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I'm not sure if @Matthew Allard ACS still has his F3, I know he still has the F35 though

 

Here's his extract from https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/03/20/do-you-really-need-a-camera-that-can-shoot-4k/ on the Sony F3

Quote

Sony F3

S-log-0021.jpg
Announced back in 2010, the Sony F3 was the first “affordable” Super 35mm camera. At the time, $16,000 USD was cheap for a digital Super 35mm camera. The camera uses a 2.5K sensor but can only record HD. It is only capable of recording 35 Mbit/sec 4:2:0 internally to SxS cards. Through the use of HD-SDI dual-link outputs you can externally record 4:2:2 1080 up to 50/59.94P, or RGB 4:4:4 1080 at up to 29.97P. With the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q, you can record 4444 ProRes or 4:4:4 DPX files from the F3.

It uses a versatile Sony FZ mount and comes with a PL mount adapter. A wide variety of lens mount adapters are also available so you can run just about any lens you can think of on the F3. Even Fujinon’s new MK zooms with an FZ mount will fit seamlessly on this camera.

The F3 is lightweight, has long run times on small batteries, built-in ND filters and proper audio. You can pick up good examples of this camera for as little as $700 USD. Used SxS cards can also be picked up for under $100 USD. SxS card adaptors that take SD cards are also available.

Pros: Good image quality, 444 RGB output, Log recording, long battery runtimes, built-in NDs, proper XLR inputs, small, compact size.
Cons: Needs an external recorder to record a broadcast codec. Terrible viewfinder. You will probably need to buy a lens mount adapter

 

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Congrats Willy. Welcome to the F3 club. Both Matt and myself still have these cameras. In fact I have four of them and they form my live switching setup with the Atomos Sumo19 (disclosure - who I now work for). I also have Fujinon MKs on two of them, plus a pair of Sony Cine Primes (currently bargains to be had there too). I would get a Ninja V with the SDI module and record externally for best results and easy monitoring. 

Dan 

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I loved my F3! It really had a gorgeous, creamy roll-off into highlights. It made me look like a better shooter than I was!

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15 hours ago, Dan Chung said:

Congrats Willy. Welcome to the F3 club. Both Matt and myself still have these cameras. In fact I have four of them and they form my live switching setup with the Atomos Sumo19 (disclosure - who I now work for). I also have Fujinon MKs on two of them, plus a pair of Sony Cine Primes (currently bargains to be had there too). I would get a Ninja V with the SDI module and record externally for best results and easy monitoring. 

Dan 

If you only need HD, this is such a great setup still!

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I still have my F3. It is serial number 2, the second one ever made. It is still a good camera if you only need HD. Some of the best stuff I ever shot was using that camera. 
 

I still use it occasionally. If anyone is interested in the FZ Mount 18-252mm servo zoom lens I have one.

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Your F35 was a really early serial number too , wasn't it? How did you end up with such early versions? Were you blogging a lot at the time then too?

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Nope, with the F3 I just put in an order early in Japan. My F35 is also serial number 2. I won’t ever sell either of them. They will end up in the ACS clubhouse one day. 

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Dan - I was wondering if any of the Atomos stuff would take advantage of the external recording or not, I will have to look into that further. 

I dug around and found the original Sony LUT for SLog to 709, hard to find any support or anything regarding the original SLog. If anyone in the future needs it, I can’t remember where I found it but I could send it to you.

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@WillyLyons you could also use the program LUTCalc. It has the original slog values in, so you could make an slog to rec709 LUT, or slog to LC709A, or slog to slog3, for example.

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On 4/30/2020 at 3:46 PM, Dan Chung said:

Congrats Willy. Welcome to the F3 club. Both Matt and myself still have these cameras. In fact I have four of them and they form my live switching setup with the Atomos Sumo19 (disclosure - who I now work for). I also have Fujinon MKs on two of them, plus a pair of Sony Cine Primes (currently bargains to be had there too). I would get a Ninja V with the SDI module and record externally for best results and easy monitoring. 

Dan 

Can you confirm that that ninja v and sdi module does work to record 420 10 bit 1080p? 

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I am super interested in getting an f3. Is there any professional work that shows what it can do? The internet tells me that the movie "Safety Not Guaranteed" was shot with it. Is there anything else?

I currently work with a company and we shoot on FS5's to shoguns with some manual lenses and some sony servo lenses.

I am starting from almost no equipment but years of experience. I have an osmo pocket that I shoot lots of broll with and I am looking for a talking head camera to shoot and record audio. Is it a bad idea to buy the F3 and put some old manual lenses through a passive mount adapter to fz on it and hook up a shotgun mic for talking heads and record internally? Or do I need to buy some pl lenses and record audio seperately and record on an external recorder like a shogun or 7q+ or pix-e5?

 

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Hey CTaylor,

I don’t know of any specific programming to point out but if your deliverable requirements often don’t call for more than HD I would say it’s an excellent option for a small budget. I don't personally think external recording is necessary but it is obviously nice to have the option. As I said in my original post, I use the Fujinon MK 18-55 with mine and an E-FZ adapter. I think if you own/use a lot of Canon glass the F3 may not make as much sense and a C300 or C100 might be a better option. You can absolutely record audio in camera and also the F3 has Timecode In which the FS5 and C100 do not have which might be important for you. I’d say go for it if you have or want to invest in PL glass or some manual lenses that can be easily adapted.

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16 minutes ago, WillyLyons said:

Hey CTaylor,

I don’t know of any specific programming to point out but if your deliverable requirements often don’t call for more than HD I would say it’s an excellent option for a small budget. I don't personally think external recording is necessary but it is obviously nice to have the option. As I said in my original post, I use the Fujinon MK 18-55 with mine and an E-FZ adapter. I think if you own/use a lot of Canon glass the F3 may not make as much sense and a C300 or C100 might be a better option. You can absolutely record audio in camera and also the F3 has Timecode In which the FS5 and C100 do not have which might be important for you. I’d say go for it if you have or want to invest in PL glass or some manual lenses that can be easily adapted.

Thanks for the quick reply! Thank you for the encouragement.

HD is all I have to do right now.

I own the sigma 18-35 1.8 canon mount and I own three old minolta md mount lenses. There are some cheap md to FZ adaptors.

I am wanting to build this out slowly and replace the camera and/or add an A cam with an f5 or f55 in a year or two. Is that a bad idea? If it seems feasible and an ok idea, what external recorder would be somewhat future proof and get a good image out of the F3 at the same time? It seems like most people don't use atomos or video devices with the f5 or f55.

And I am not going toward the FS5(my camera for 100+ projects for the past 2 years) or FS7 because I want it to look less video and more film, which I know is totally vague, but I read recently that the original FS5 was made for Video for events and other footage that focused on details and clarity and the FS5 MII is not an upgrade camera but a sideways move to give a separate option that is more filmic and less detail. MII is supposed to have the venice color science. And it seems that I can't fully get a non noise image from slog2. 

All that to say, I want more of the cinealta look. We rented a fs700 years ago and shot to the odyssey and it was beautiful to work with in raw in davinci resolve. I would like to get back to an image that looks like that. And I think the F3 and subsequently the F5 and F55 have that kind of image.

Does all this make sense?

 

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8 hours ago, Ctaylor said:

Thanks for the quick reply! Thank you for the encouragement.

HD is all I have to do right now.

I own the sigma 18-35 1.8 canon mount and I own three old minolta md mount lenses. There are some cheap md to FZ adaptors.

I am wanting to build this out slowly and replace the camera and/or add an A cam with an f5 or f55 in a year or two. Is that a bad idea? If it seems feasible and an ok idea, what external recorder would be somewhat future proof and get a good image out of the F3 at the same time? It seems like most people don't use atomos or video devices with the f5 or f55.

And I am not going toward the FS5(my camera for 100+ projects for the past 2 years) or FS7 because I want it to look less video and more film, which I know is totally vague, but I read recently that the original FS5 was made for Video for events and other footage that focused on details and clarity and the FS5 MII is not an upgrade camera but a sideways move to give a separate option that is more filmic and less detail. MII is supposed to have the venice color science. And it seems that I can't fully get a non noise image from slog2. 

All that to say, I want more of the cinealta look. We rented a fs700 years ago and shot to the odyssey and it was beautiful to work with in raw in davinci resolve. I would like to get back to an image that looks like that. And I think the F3 and subsequently the F5 and F55 have that kind of image.

Does all this make sense?

 

I used mine for countless years and shot a lot of content with it. I primarily used a MTF Nikon to FZ mount adapter. If you want to record 4444 ProRes from thar camera you need to get an external recorder such as the Odyssey 7Q+ or Sound Devices PIX 240. The Atomos recorders can only do 422 10-bit. If you only need 422 10-bit just about any recorder will work. 

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Not heaps relevant but I think I remember reading that this little video was shot on an F3. Super simple concept well executed and it still looks great today.

 

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On 5/20/2020 at 8:27 PM, Dave May said:

Not heaps relevant but I think I remember reading that this little video was shot on an F3. Super simple concept well executed and it still looks great today.

 

That’s a beaut right there, thanks for sharing!

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Ergonomically it's not great, but if you setup your preset white balances with a bit of forethought, you can make it pretty painless to switch between a range of WBs (not just Daylight and Tungsten), and if you can find one with the Element Technica Body Armour and the RGB 4:4:4 upgrade - it gets much better to use.

As a sensor in a box it's pretty terrific. Here are a few shorts I shot on the F3:

 

 

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I used the F3 to shoot one of my uni short films. Didn't have an external recorder, and only had the three original Sony primes to shoot on. Not greeeat to work with, but the image was actually quite nice. I have never touched it since, but it was the predecessor to the very excellent F5/F55, so you can say it was an extremely important camera for Sony to make and learn from.

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I'm pretty new to  cinematography and still learning.

I bought a Sony PMW F3 camera on a whim after watching a Youtube video about how good this was and didn't even finish watching that video before I found one on eBay and bought it. The thing that sold me was the 35mm sensor. I do documentaries.

I have a lot to learn as this has features I've never heard of before. I have a couple of DLSR cameras that I've shot with but this old stuff is pretty new to me, maybe confusing is the right word.

So I'm looking for advice on how to get acquainted with all the features, quirks and limitations, etc.. What are the best youtube sources of information or other websites? I printed off the manual, all 163 pages and that is a good reference piece but it doesn't give me all the detail I need to understand the lingo.

The burning question for me right now is external recorders since I'm not thrilled with the the little screen. I have an Atomos Assassin that I've used on other DSLR's but not sure this will work with this Sony. I haven't finished setting this up with the tripod mounts and rods to set up the recorder, though I have enough parts to do that.

I've managed to find some okay lenses and adapters, Nikon and Canon but not ready to spend a bunch of cash of good quality glass on something I may not keep.

Just looking for advice and counsel on this "antique."

 

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5 hours ago, Deacon said:

I'm pretty new to  cinematography and still learning.

I bought a Sony PMW F3 camera on a whim after watching a Youtube video about how good this was and didn't even finish watching that video before I found one on eBay and bought it. The thing that sold me was the 35mm sensor. I do documentaries.

I have a lot to learn as this has features I've never heard of before. I have a couple of DLSR cameras that I've shot with but this old stuff is pretty new to me, maybe confusing is the right word.

So I'm looking for advice on how to get acquainted with all the features, quirks and limitations, etc.. What are the best youtube sources of information or other websites? I printed off the manual, all 163 pages and that is a good reference piece but it doesn't give me all the detail I need to understand the lingo.

The burning question for me right now is external recorders since I'm not thrilled with the the little screen. I have an Atomos Assassin that I've used on other DSLR's but not sure this will work with this Sony. I haven't finished setting this up with the tripod mounts and rods to set up the recorder, though I have enough parts to do that.

I've managed to find some okay lenses and adapters, Nikon and Canon but not ready to spend a bunch of cash of good quality glass on something I may not keep.

Just looking for advice and counsel on this "antique."

 

Ask away. I’ve owned one since early 2011.

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