ChungMedia

New 5DmkII news feature video – lots of rolling shutter, does it matter?

5DmkII video – Re-enacting the making of Mao’s China from Dan Chung on Vimeo.

This is the latest video I’ve finished for the Guardian website. As per usual it is shot on a 5DmkII, but has a few cut away long shots by my assistant using the super little JVC HM-100 camcorder. As this was a live show and not set up especially for me I had to keep the rig mobile while running the camera was mounted on a small custom Redrockmicro rig with a Zacuto Z-Finder 2 and a Fader ND filter for exposure control. A high shutter speed was chosen to try and get that ‘Saving Private Ryan effect’. Also in this case the depth of field was moderate, shooting about F5.6 of f8 most of the time so I was using the 5DmkII instead of a handycam mainly for its size, weight and wide angle lens coverage rather than shallow depth of field look.

In the action sequences the rolling shutter effect is clearly visible. This effect is demonstrated here by f-stop academy supremo Phil Bloom.

7d 5dmkII noise and rolling shutter rough test from Philip Bloom on Vimeo.

So my question is this, for news shooting does the audience really care that there is a bit of rolling shutter? this is not a feature film or a drama and so the audience expectation of quality is lower, they are used to seeing camera phone footage and bad DV on the news these days anyway. If I were shooting a feature like Slumdog Millionaire this would clearly be unacceptable, but I’m not.

I like many others complain about this a lot to the likes of Canon and Nikon, but the reality is for the type of work I am doing I don’t think the viewer cares. Your thoughts please?

DEFY_WEB_AD_NewsShooter_640x100.gif 640x100-5

Posted on September 28th, 2009 by admin | Category: Canon Eos5DmkII, Journalism |

87 responses to "New 5DmkII news feature video – lots of rolling shutter, does it matter?"

  1. Bela Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 7:47 am

    @Mark #42, Hello!

    MARK ASKS THIS: “where did i say the steadycam was specifically invented to reduce the effects of rolling shutter?”

    PREVIOUSLY, MARK SAID THIS: “D.D. has been using a 5Dmkii on a steadycam in Afghanistan. Seems to do a lot to help the rolling shutter problems.”

    In other words, “using a 5Dmkii on a steadycam in seems to do a lot to help the rolling shutter problems.”

    Get it? Mark, do all of us a huge favor pls: before asking a specific question, please read your own specific statement that already provides to you and everyone else out there a full and complete answer to your own question.

    Let’s go back to “Physics 100,” shall we? If you do a 90 degree left-to-right pan on a tripod w. a fluid head in 20 seconds at say 50mm focal length, why would doing the same pan w. the camera mounted on a Steadicam be any better for rolling shutter motion effects?

    Mark, if you to really want reduce jitter and camera shake caused by running about with the camera on uneven surface, by all means float it on a Steadicam or similar gyroscopic stabilizier platform.

    But if you really wish to reduce CMOS-type rolling shutter, please, do NOT shoot your stuff with a CMOS-sensor camera. As those have GLOBAL SHUTTER, not rolling shutter. Problems related to rollling shutter would not only be reduced for ya’ by going the CMOS route, it would likely be eliminated completely. Canon, Panasonic, JVC, etc. make these types of cameras in the professional and semi-pro league. 3CMOS sensors + global shuutter, yeah!

    Moving on to the content, nobody has said, Matt, that you made any comment on the “Obama’s War” propaganda video. I understand you reserve your comments on the “bad, evil Commies” videos exclusively.

    I am glad you are not American. Now, considering that we’ve got henchmen from some 20-25 nations over there in Ole’ Afghanland besides the obvious guilty parties of Americans and British, are you telling us that you also have got nothing to do with any of those nations, some of which are NATO members and some are holly unaffilitied? They are all claiming to be “liberators” and “peacekeepers” in Afghanistan, you see.

  2. Ulilaviel Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 7:52 am

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  3. cialis Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 7:55 am

  4. Woan Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 8:10 am

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  5. Feririen Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Very cute :-) ))),

  6. Mark Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    Bela i can only assume English isn’t your first language. Saying a steadycam can help with the rolling shutter is vastly different to saying it was invented specifically to stop rolling shutter problems. They are completely different statements. Like i said read what is actually written and don’t make things up!

    Seriously you make yourself sound really silly by ranting about things that you clearly haven’t understood properly.

    You also said this “Let’s go back to “Physics 100,” shall we? If you do a 90 degree left-to-right pan on a tripod w. a fluid head in 20 seconds at say 50mm focal length, why would doing the same pan w. the camera mounted on a Steadicam be any better for rolling shutter motion effects?”

    Well thats EXACTLY what i said!!! I said it WOULD NOT help with panning! I said it would help with random handheld camera movements only!!!!!

    Seriously have you shot with the 5D?!? You do realise that a lot of the rolling shutter distortions are caused by handheld camera shake type movements? These are some of the most visually distracting distortions caused and these would be reduced with a steadycam.

    Seriously…learn to read english properly so you can understand what is written!!! For fucks sake! Its really boring talking with someone when they are purposefully misunderstanding everything that is said!!

    As has already been said if you are photojournalist working out in the field you cannot carry everything. Using a dslr to shoot video for news is a compromise. Even with the rolling shutter. We are not making feature films here will you get that through your thick head!!

    As for comments on commies!?!? Where have you got that from? Because i commented on the anniversary thread about not telling more of the story?!? Really it doesn’t matter that it was China. It could have been anywhere in the world. It wasn’t aimed at undermining China. I just thought it was an interesting aspect of the story that should have been covered.

    Seriously you shouldn’t make assumptions about someone’s entire political beliefs from a few postings on the internet. Its really not going to give you a good understanding of what someone thinks.

    Yes i am from a country which has involvement in Afghanistan. But i did not vote for the government that is in power. I do not control them and i continually criticise how they have handled the situation. I am not blinded by nationalistic loyalty.

    I am only responsible for my own actions. Nothing more. So this ‘affiliation’ argument is completely moronic.

    Now seeing as you hate rolling shutter video dslr’s so much why don’t you go somewhere else instead of moan about them here? I’m sure there must be a CMOS fan club website you can join.

  7. Legeniel Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    If you have to do it, you might as well do it right.,

  8. Bela Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 10:45 am

    @Mark, Resident Guru Numero Ocho: you don’t really know much then, do you now?

    “Bela i can only assume English isn’t your first language.”

    MY ANSWER: Not only it is, in the English language I happen to speak since childhood, Senior Wiseass, the first person singular personal pronoun “I” is always capitalized. Always. Even in mid-sencence. In other words, there is no “i” by itself in my Enlgish.

    Comprendre, Senior Mark? Back to school with ya’, or better yet, Kindergarten, I daresay.

    “For fucks sake!”

    Mark, the previous statement of yours should have said: “For fuck’s sake!” You missed the apostrophy, Brother. Possessive instead of plural, Loco Ingles Fool! What did you say your full-time job is, professor of English at the Queen’s College in Oxford, United Kingdom?

    “if you are photojournalist working out in the field you cannot carry everything.”

    MY SUGEGSTION: In that case, you’d better collect your disability checks, stay home by the cozy fireplace and knit a scraf or something. Oh, and BTW, how come previous generations of cameramen and photographers could actually carry around their crap okay? Like 35mm film cameras at the Normandy landing on D-day? Or was it only since the invention of video-capable DSLRs last year that the world’s “photojournalists” have collectively gotten really weak and/or lazy?

    Mark, apparently we both agree that using a gyro stabilizier rig would help with random handheld camera movements. Correct? Now, if you should rig a CCD camcorder to the Steadicam or similar support instead of one with the notorious CMOS sensor + electronic rolling shutter combo, you’d really be peachy, horky-dorky, and hoitie-toitie. Correct?

    “I’m sure there must be a CMOS fan club website you can join.”

    MY TAKE ON THE ABOVE SUGGESTION: Now, Mark, my main man, you are clearly losing it here, Buddy. Why on Earth would I be joining a “CMOS fan club web site,” You Misguided Soul, when I told you time and again and again that I think that CCD sensor techology w. GLOBAL SHUTTER is superior when it comes to capturing motion with a video camera? Remember??

    But hey, maybe YOU are confusing CMOS with CCD with Steadicam, could that be the simple explanation, My Esteemed Photojournalist Friend?

    “Yes i am from a country which has involvement in Afghanistan”

    MY CONCUSION: Just as I had thought all along, Mark. Finally, the truth has come out. And it is none too pretty, either.

  9. Manus Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Hi Dan,

    To get back to your question, I dont thinkthe majority of readers of an internet news site care about or will notice rolling shutter, i think if you asked a group of visitors of guardian.co.uk to analyse the quality of your clips they will say that the quality looks really good to them..

    On a side note, i think the high shutter speed effect in this particular video looked a little out of place in a ‘standard’ news report, i think for this effect it should have been emphasised a little in certain parts of the report only, maybe through the use of more extreme colouring/contrast, or not used, i think certain cinematic effects like more use of DOF can work well but theres a slight danger in going too far away from the format people are used to seeing too quickly that might look a little strange in the end to them..

    just my 2c!

  10. Umin Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    I want to say – thank you for this!,

  11. Mark Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    Bela, what annoys me most is that i allowed myself to be dragged into another pointless internet argument.

    So i really won’t be engaging with you again because it just detracts from what could have been a worthwhile conversation.

  12. Seveandra Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 11:38 am

    Great. Now i can say thank you!,

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    October 5th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    I bookmarked this link. Thank you for good job!,

  14. Eowienia Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Perfect work!,

  15. Bela Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    @Mark, Victim No. 14: what should really annoy you, Amigo, is that you are Mark.

    I mean, what’s the point in THAT, Old Friend? You lost, fair and square. Jawhol?

    @Manus #12, obviously the world somewhat disagreed with you, as with our resident negatory Mark From Deep Space 99 here. Not only was this amazing footage by Dan shown on The Guardian of UK’s web site, major news organizations all over the world have picked up Dan’s novel-approach clip.

    Why, what did you do by way of video in the past five days or so that was picked up worldwide?

  16. Unalelian Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Very interesting site. Hope it will always be alive!,

  17. Mark Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Going back to the original conversation, speaking to other real people who work in this industry they feel that the Danfung Dennis video only displayed minor rolling shutter artifacts and was perfectly acceptable. Certainly better than other footage from Afghanistan that has been shot on non-dlsr’s.

    So yes i see no problem with using the 5D but i think a small steadycam is something i’m going to have to look into testing out.

  18. Sama Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    Great site. Keep doing.,

  19. Gridia Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

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  20. Bela Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    @Mark, I must agree with you, the EOS 7D’s r.s. artiacts are not too bad when compared to the competition. Why is it suddenly “acceptable,” however? When you have perfectly good alternatives not to have any of this recent phenomenon artifact crap in the first place. As if we did not have enough already in video acquisition, hmmm?

    I mean, someone had “invented” this CMOS stuff, and still camera manufacturers had jumped on it to save money. Next thing you knew, the bastards that are SONY have started to put the damn thing into actual VIDEO CAMCORDERS.

    Designed for still pictures, increasingly used in video cameras by the save-a-buck mfrs. Why is that technology suddenly so acceptable, I wonder?

    But no matter how one slices it, r.s. is a fact of life for moving images, and will be until someone comes up with a way to couple a CMOS sensor with GLOBAL SHUTTER. That will take some time yet, I suppose, and it will be rather expensive. So, probably it will never happen.

    Re. gyro-stablilized rigs, it is always a good idea, whether shooting on film, CCD or CMOS video. The Barber Tech SteddiePod seems to work the best and be the least expensive options, plus it also doubles as a tripod and monopod.

    http://www.barbertvp.com/products-list.html

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